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Author Topic: WoW (even easier) Mode.  (Read 4879 times)

Onin

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Re: WoW (even easier) Mode.
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2011, 05:19:48 PM »

Since when is the third difficulty level suddenly a BAD thing?

The scrubs that raid easy mode won't get good gear, won't get the legendary and in generally won't even be real raiders. Who cares if they're able to see the same boss model as you? They're still doing easy mode.

All this does is guarantee that normal mode is of normal difficulty, rather than normal-until-we-nerf-it-by-fking-40%-and-laugh-at-you, and heroic can actually stay heroic as well.

Since a third difficulty has been utterly unnecessary, which, in my opinion is the very beginning of the game.

You want the walking man's tour of the fight?  Youtube and Tankspot provide exactly that, in HD, and (most importantly) don't give loot!  Sounds perfect for the "I'm not good enough to do this fight on Normal despite the fact that the last Normal Mode that was hard was SSC" crowd.
So you suggest watching a video of someone else playing a game is a perfect substitute for actually playing the game, both from the points of view of the casual scrub and the company in general?

There's no such thing as an unnecessary difficulty level. The more difficulty levels you're able to develop, the better you can cater to all the demographics you previously mentioned.

I've never understood this obsession with worse players doing the same content as you. This is the case in every single video game for years upon years. Scrubs can play your God of War, your Deus Ex, your Witcher, all your favourite singleplayer games on the easiest difficulty and experience the exact same game as you with less effort. But you take away more enjoyment thanks to the challenge and in some cases the prestige. Scrubs can play your CoD, your LoL, all your favourite multiplayer games with other scrubs and experience relatively the same gameplay with less time invested in practising. You take away more enjoyment out of the competitiveness at higher levels.

What the hell makes WoW any different, that suddenly people have to be completely excluded from "your" content? As long as you still have ample challenge available to you (which, I will gladly admit, Blizzard has not always managed to deliver), where's the problem?

Easy mode raids only gives Blizzard less excuse to dumb down or nerf raiding. You should be welcoming it.
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Erathor

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Re: WoW (even easier) Mode.
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2011, 07:51:55 PM »

Blizzard ain't the best for nothing... (I have a huge post I'm working on in this area BTW)

But seeing this thread pop up does make me wonder how a community who scorns WoW got this far and I hadn't heard a thing yet. Oh well guess I've finally achieved a balance. Hell there is a nightly /2 ICC run on every faction, on every server even today. It really shows me that maybe most of the PvE hardliners have filtered their way out of the game itself by now. We can finally get down to those that DO and those that TRY.

I guess the only questions to ask now is how many people will complete Easy and call it a day and how well will easy prepare you for the next level? Hopefully the easy mode has some built in Deadly Boss Mod type indicators and someday a post-kill fight breakdown of who did what mechanic wise. I also hope there is a normal mode for the 3 new 5mans as well (for some reason ZG and ZA didn't have).
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Darth Xanith

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Re: WoW (even easier) Mode.
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2011, 08:20:59 PM »

Uhhh what? If you're still "trying" ICC at level 85 then it's time to uninstall your game, format the hard drive and burn the physical copy of WoW.

The real question is what will happen to normal mode, will we see it nerfed so faceroll mode people can get normal loot after a while?

Quite honestly I am done with WoW, Blizzard may well be coming out with what looks to be the most compelling endgame of an expansion thus far in terms of lore, building to a climax seeds they have been planting ever since the burning crusade but nothing, and I mean NOTHING could lure me back now. Youtube and wowpedia will show me the story and I shall move on to another better MMO.

God willing, the crappy false casual trash (because we all know there is a difference between a casual and an entitled casual) will stay with WoW while I play Guild Wars 2 and/or Tera Online or The Secret World.
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Ebion

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Re: WoW (even easier) Mode.
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2011, 08:26:15 PM »

Well, I guess the good thing that'll come from this is that there is a small, slight glimmer of hope that the Entitled Casuals and all of the Not-even-level-85-cuz-leveling-is-too-hard whiners might get there own Walk in, receive loot and those who fall into the middle of the Hardcore Difficulty, Casual Difficulty, nothing for the man who wants a MODERATE challenge might actually get one in normals now.
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Erathor

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Re: WoW (even easier) Mode.
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2011, 11:13:41 PM »

The real question is what will happen to normal mode, will we see it nerfed so faceroll mode people can get normal loot after a while?
Yes because it make sense both business wise and game wise.

God willing, the crappy false casual trash (because we all know there is a difference between a casual and an entitled casual) will stay with WoW while I play Guild Wars 2 and/or Tera Online or The Secret World.
The "trash" as you put it will be in every game you play because your attitude is so bad. If you can't change your environment, change your attitude.
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Octale

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Re: WoW (even easier) Mode.
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2011, 12:18:10 AM »

Quote
So you suggest watching a video of someone else playing a game is a perfect substitute for actually playing the game, both from the points of view of the casual scrub and the company in general?
I think we have plenty of direct evidence that chumps are perfectly happy living vicariously through champs.  The apparent popularity of e-sports would seem to be such a direct indicator, as well as the bevy of "Let's Play" videos you can find 'round the net.

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The more difficulty levels you're able to develop, the better you can cater to all the demographics you previously mentioned.
It was tried.  Remember Flame Leviathan?  Or Yogg Saron?  Blizzard decided to marginalize the middle 60-ish percent of players by choosing to design only for the very top, and the very bottom of player skill through binary hard modes, and complete tiers of content that were embarrassing to run, and killed guilds.  So they've now gone to trinary (not a word) modes.  It's too little, too late for that.

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I've never understood this obsession with worse players doing the same content as you.
No one has sufficiently explained to me why MMOs can't or shouldn't be a strict meritocracy.  Not everyone gets to be a rocket scientist; some people have to take out my trash.  While the guy who takes out my trash drank him/herself out of school, I was working 4 part-time jobs and carrying a full class load (in Physics, I might add). [NOTE: This is purely an example designed for the purposes of demonstrating that people who don't try do not get the same rewards as people who do try]  I did the work; therefore, I get the benefits that come from doing that work.  No acceptable reason for any MMO to be any different.  Expend the effort, and get the reward.  Plain, simple, and it preserves gaming's axioms (1. Play to win. 2. All things equal, the best player wins.)

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Blizzard ain't the best...
Fixed.  They used to be, until they donned the waterskis and jumped the shark.  They used to be, until they started trying not to lose.  The first universal truism is popular != good.

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The real question is what will happen to normal mode, will we see it nerfed so faceroll mode people can get normal loot after a while?
Damn fine question.  IF Scrub Mode becomes the new whipping boy for lazy and terrible players and their lazy and terrible teammates, then maybe...just maybe...the game *could* turn the corner.  There are other issues, class homogenization in the name of the e-sport, amongst others.  Repealing BTPNTC and the accessibility edict are a necessary first step for Normal Modes in a 3 mode paradigm.
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Darth Xanith

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Re: WoW (even easier) Mode.
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2011, 02:36:48 AM »

The "trash" as you put it will be in every game you play because your attitude is so bad. If you can't change your environment, change your attitude.

"Meh"?, Tbh if you want to claim my attitude is bad go right ahead, I've had my interest in WoW killed by players for whom "everything, right now" is their only priority.
Any protest against the game not offering a challenge and a path of progression so players have something to work towards has been shouted down as being by "no life raiders" for years now.

The facts right now are clear, one of the "selling points" of WoW in all of the banner ads is "puggable raids", this does not mean they've found a way to make it easy for cross-realm groups to make friends and re-try content. No, it means that you can join 9 or 24 other random people and smash your head against the content a few times before epics fall from the sky. Essentially what you had in Wrath.

Luckily other MMOs have watched WoW and are learning from it, Guild Wars 2 will offer content for everyone, from those who want to come on and play for an hour to those who wish to sink hours into it. Just like the first game, PVP balance will be done via skills working slightly differently in PVE and PVP rather than nerfing the whole game because of some broken PVP combo. More importantly we'll see content that scales to the players, harder hitting world events and bosses the more people who turn up.

The Secret World intends to emphasise faction play, rewarding you for time invested with your society, while Tera-online will be an entierly skill driven game where someone too retarded to learn that a Dragon rearing up and roaring means that in 2 seconds that area is going to be bathed in flame and he better move his ass or use a defensive ability will *never* win.

So you see, in better designed MMO games entitled casual "trash" (and they are) should not be as much of an issue. Between time sinks that can be done at a flexible rate, story focused progression that ensures players always have something to do and games that reward and encourage skill in a steady learning curve there are options for the "trash" to get better.

If they won't change that "everything, now!" attitude then THEY can stay with WoW instead of changing their environment.
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Erathor

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Re: WoW (even easier) Mode.
« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2011, 02:27:49 PM »

No one has sufficiently explained to me why MMOs can't or shouldn't be a strict meritocracy.  Not everyone gets to be a rocket scientist; some people have to take out my trash.  While the guy who takes out my trash drank him/herself out of school, I was working 4 part-time jobs and carrying a full class load (in Physics, I might add). [NOTE: This is purely an example designed for the purposes of demonstrating that people who don't try do not get the same rewards as people who do try]  I did the work; therefore, I get the benefits that come from doing that work.  No acceptable reason for any MMO to be any different.  Expend the effort, and get the reward.  Plain, simple, and it preserves gaming's axioms (1. Play to win. 2. All things equal, the best player wins.)

This just sounds so bitter, but I do understand. Doesn't Easy mode with lower gear drops push this agenda? I do admire the effort=reward "0/1" mentality though, doesn't it just make you so angry that the world doesn't quite work that way? This is why you need people of different ilk involved in the process of design. Also the idea that a team based and possibly political environment simulates the real world in ways never done before is just mind boggling. Having that "0/1" mentality probably drew you to games in the first place. A stable rules based environment where you can get away from the daily garbage of random people right? But this game has become so much more than that. For God's sake the game basically allows experimentation with things like group politics, economy, leadership, organization and communication all the while providing a multitude of goals to go after.

People skills are skills too. Knowing how to filter and communicate properly, yup skills as well. Dealing with the "trash", an attitude to start with which can be honed into a skill. Now these might not be things you are interested in doing ever. You might be the smartest Physics guy with 4 jobs ever and all of these things just make you angry. You aren't interested in the person next to you, you just want to win. Ok, you can still do that in the game if you wish. Become the top arena team, complete all the achievements, join the best guild the world and push world firsts or just be the first amongst your friends to achieve ilvl whatever.

Sure Blizz is out to make a buck and they do that mainly on the backs of bad players. In the midst of that however an interesting thing was created that will be influencing lots of people and several generations to come. Some will go take parts of WoW and strictly go the "0/1" route and that will be good for that crowd in the long run. It is important for the popular option to exist in that manner to start the idea wheels turning and more importantly create the gleam in the eye of potential investors.
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Octale

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Re: WoW (even easier) Mode.
« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2011, 08:39:42 AM »

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Sure Blizz is out to make a buck and they do that mainly on the backs of bad players.
At least we're finally making progress; for the last three years, you wouldn't even admit to this.
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Erathor

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Re: WoW (even easier) Mode.
« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2011, 02:17:54 PM »

Yea, a lot of the hurt feelings I think come from this. It is pretty tough to push so many hours into content only to have it nerfed over time and basically have to start all over again. I got my Kingslayer with the 30% buff which isn't really (other than date achieved) distinguished from someone who got it at level 85 or someone who did it at launch. Would I have gotten it before the expansion without the 30% buff? Probably not to be honest. If it was something I really wanted enough to hurt feelings, maybe. But then where would I be post-expansion, when that content is trivial at 85 and I am forced to push again?

I am a customer who will play easy mode. I will probably PuG it and try to teach what would be considered "bad" players how to get through it. I will also play normal as well. Believe it or not I like to PuG especially in bigger teams. It cycles fresh blood into conversations and into gameplay as well. It is a skill for sure and I believe part of the game.

I do also respect if you feel like Blizz aren't focused on you enough, you can move on. I just wouldn't be surprised when another MMO (cough cough epic lightsabers for all) goes right down the same path.
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